Combat Rules Vamp vs BSD/Garou

How to fight a furry 101 - written by Jacinda's player

All right folks.

Now you know what a fuzzy is... or a furry... One of those things that
can grow four times it's size with ginsu knives for fingernails, have
bad breath, and what one could consider infernal (depending on who you
ask).

Now I am first and foremost a player of shifters, I enjoy vampire and
the like, but WtA has always been a love of mine.. This may come off
as biased in some points, and if that happens, I do apologize.

All righty lets' start off first about Silver....

Silver in it's -purest- form can cause 1 agg per turn of contact,
unless the werewolf is in Homid (Human) or Lupus (Wolf) form, and it
is their breed form (What they were born.. either human or a puppy) -
then it causes -no- damage through casual contact. All though a weapon
made of silver will cause normal damage for that weapon.

Garou cannot soak damage from silver, ecept in their breed form. Metis
(Those who are born in Crinos - which for some reason a lot of folks
like to play Metis) cannot soak silver damage at all.

Silver is also a way to lower their gnosis.

Some notes I would like to say about silver.

Silver isn't the end all be all of garou killing, and you should have
at least an occult of 2 or a garou (werewolf) lore of 1 to know that
silver can hurt them. Silver isn't also readily available in a pure
form to be able to cause damage, plus silver is kinda.. well frail.
It's a pain in the ass to get a silver sword or even bullets, possible
but you need someone who can do such a thing and it's going to be
expensive.

Also note: Silver does NOT harm ALL shapeshifters... Ananasi
(werespiders) and Nuwisha (Werecoyotes) are two fera (shapeshifters
that are not garou) who are not effected by it. - Least I think that
about Ananasi, I'll have to look it up later. For you to know this
type of information I would have to say you need FERA SPECIFIC lore...
- Ananasi Lore 2 or Nuwisha Lore 2.

Healing -

Garou are tanks for healing most of the time, even in combat they can
heal, granted it's horrible at times... It can be the key factor in
loosing or winning in combat against one of these Rage Machines.

They heal 1 lethal health level or 1 bashing health level -per- turn.
No garou regardless of breed can regenerate agg damage. And to
regenerate in combat or any other stressful activity, the player of
THAT garou must roll the garou's stamina (difficulty 8) each turn, and
it is a reflexive action.

Also Mother's Touch CAN and WILL sway combat as well depending.. Those
with THIS gift (Theurges, Children of Gaia etc) WILL use it during
combat, but keep an eye on them. Some of them will lie that they have
this gift, and you ask for sheets... Also.. MT takes Gnosis, keep an
eye on it, or contact someone who knows how to play WtA.. Also THOSE
who are BSD's.... rarely EVER have this gift unless they are fallen
from another tribe, and even then, I question the plausibility of it.

Let's get down to forms...

This is always a pain in the ass...

Glabro (Near man form - A lot of people actually think ti's POSSIBLE
to run around in this form, and it's a veil breech no matter what..
Veil = Masquerade so to speak... Even if they have a merit that lets
them LOOK normal in Glabro, they get injured while in Glabro they
heal... it's a big big big veil breech if anyone is watching)

Str +2
Stam +2
App -1
Man - 1

Crinos - this is the war form, and also the form that Metis are born
in (Talk about painful eh?), this is the form that MOST garou will
take when going up against a foe, and you are a foe.

Str + 4
Dex +1
Stam +3
App: 0
Man -3

Hispo - This is a form that a lot of you will NEVER ever see because
people forget how bad ass it can be. Hispo is the DIRE WOLF form, it
is frickin' huge and is NOT normal.. It's another veil breech but a
smaller offense.

Str +3
Dex +2
Stam +3
Man -3

Lupus - the wolf form, pure and simple.. This can also be kinda nice
for a hit and run attack,keep your eyes open. And NO!!! Lupus do NOT
look like dog's no matter -what-.. Though I believe the BSD have a
gift that DOES let them mimic a dog... Zoth could answer that better
than I.

Str +1
Dex +2
Stam +2
Manipulation -3

Okay the reason WHY I am putting this up is because some people like
to cheat on their stats. Seriously, it sucks, it's stupid but it
happens. KNOWLEDGE is a good way to protect yourselves. There ARE
gifts that allow for extra soak pools, and I think extra strength, but
that's about it... Always ask if they say they're using a gift, ask
what auspice/tribe/breed and rank it is, jot it down, and then look it
up, I'll get to that in a bit.

On the same note.. their claws DO agg, their bites DO agg, the only
thing that can help you soak agg is some armor and also fortitude if
you got it, if not you are boned, and I would suggest running quickly
the other way.. Yes I know you don't run away from fights, but another
night another fight, and you can have your pack with you.

Ugh let's see what else...

Ah yes SENSE WYRM GIFT - holy god this is a gift that is so abused on
the unmods it's NOT even funny...

Okay those of you on a path... you come up wyrmie... Those of you who
have a humanity of 6 or lower (Including those who are ghouls) Come
up.. Wyrmie...

HOWEVER and I so stress this... A BIG ASS HOWEVER.....

In the city, an alleyway, the Club Fetish, a Biker Bar, the streets,
certain mines, certain swamps, certain mountains, etc etc... It smells
wyrmie, it is not an auto detect of "evil" or whatever. You feel like
you're being icon hunted, bring it up, seriously CONFRONT them about it!

There IS a way you can fight back though...

It's called having a werewolf lore of 1 plus a perception + alertness
roll difficulty 10 minus their Rage rating... You can see how people
react around them.. Or an Auspex roll...

There are some other points I'm going to bring up... and I'll be doing
that soon... But for the moment I think this is a good first lesson.

To be a tad more informative.

Vampires: There are ways beyond 'sense wyrm' you can be detected as a corpse. You know how animals react poorly to vampires based on 'instinct'? Think of how a wolf reacts when it smells dead blood coming out of a moving creature, most likely it'd be confused and run away.

Now imagine that wolf had Super-human senses which puts Auspex 1-4 to shame and wanted to make dead things stop moving.

Now picture that wolf able to turn into a nasty creature of fur, claws and rage.

Pity the poor leech. There is a reason even methluseah's fear vampire packs, and these guys are toting levels 6, 7 and 8 in certain disciplines. If you are a lone vampire and get surrounded by a pack of werewolves. You are dead 99.9% of the time. Unless your Caine, an Antidelluvian, Ur-Shulgi, al-Ashrad, Brunhilde, or similar incredi-badass NPC.

Do we even need to go into Sense the Unnatural, Scent of the True Form or their ilk? Saying 'Using Sense Wyrm is the only way you'd know I'm a vampire." is the same as saying that Blood can only be used to power disciplines. It is simply flat out false and people who think that are at a severe and brutal disadvantage.

Let's start with some common practices of moderate to high level vampires when confronted by a situation where flight has no longer become an option.

Presence: Oh yes, that most nummy, tasty and very powerful and useful discipline. "Werewolves is no problem" croons the Toreador Prince with Presence 7. "I can make them love me or refuse to attack me". This is bad. Straight up fucked up bad. Now if combat is not imminent Presence can be a reliable way to avoid Sudden-Vampire-Death-Syndrome. Even the Storm of the Apocolypse cannot reliably negate the overwhelming awe or supernatural majesty of some vampires.

But it is possible.

For one making werewolves have any strong emotion towards you is bad. You scored 8 successes on entrancement? Check out the WtA book under animal attraction. Suck's to be the vampire whom rolled that on a high rage ahroun. Rage is the easy ticket out of every single presence effect up to and including most alternate powers up to level 8. The frenzy of a vampire or even the Shadow Soul of a KoE pales before the Thrall of the Wyrm, and is arguably less/more profound or 'natural' than a Werewolves 'normal' frenzy. A state of super-heightened aggression which can effectively make mental disciplines(Obfuscate included!) obsolete. Majesty can make everyone feel you are a point of worship, but inciting the killing frenzy in most changing breeds spells another case of Sudden-Vampire-Death-Syndrome.

Dominate: Eye Contact, most ST's don't allow it's use in combat and the nasty habit of it being ineffective when weighed against quiet a few gifts. Silent Striders and Silver Fangs in particular each have two seperate way's available only to them of flat out saying 'No' when you try to force them to submit to you. And than here is the Bringers of Light camp of Shadowlords......

Obfuscate is automatically pierced if the power used is equal or less than the rank of the Garou it is being tested against. Not usually a problem on digichats until you count what the rank 1 gift Heightened Senses can do to effectively 'bump' the level forcing even a Vanish from the Minds Eye Nosferatu vs. a Rank 1 Lupus Ragabash to need to make the resisted roll just like equal levels of auspex. Unfun if you are a vampire, but it's a better chance than hoping to god your presence works the way you want it to. Just hope the wolf is not in possession of Sense of the Prey, or you are one dice roll away from turning into one ashy vamp.

The Ravnos legendary power of Chimeristry. The art of Illusion. Well, your typical illusion crafting Ravnos illusions will be automatically detected unless the Ravnos user has access to Heightened Senses himself to craft his illusions to the point the sense stimulated by them can be fooled even with supernatural aide. Again, a variety of gifts penetrate illusions, and two can do so passively(as in not having to be routinely activated.). And again, it's better than using presence! Smoke'em if you got'em after all!

The Veil: Most people say it's the Werewolves Masquerade and if they violate it they are instantly doing a no-no. true and False. And again, the Truth part has been dangerously omitted and left open to unknowledgable individuals incorrect interpertation.The Delerium offers much better protection against breeching the Veil(Masquerade if you will) than anything a leech has and most VtM players would care to admit. Not only do the mortals present need to be incredibly strong of will to just REMEMBER a Garou in the war form (Effectively triple a normal humans WP), but they also need to fight every urge in their head which tells them that the impossible just occurred. That another person turned into a towering death machine. The Psychological effects are tremendous.

Yes, Werewolves have a form of Potence, and sweet baby Christmas Jesus is it more powerful than anything but a Brujah, Lasombra, Giovanni or Nosferatu Elder could dish out. But it is rarely found since the gift belongs to one tribe(Surprisingly enough the Children of Gaia, the 'pacifists'). But if one whips it out on you. I don't care if you got Fortitude 5, the Iron Body Ritual and Skin of the Adder. Your going to die.

Yes, Werewolves do have access to an ability that is in effect- 'Boom your dead'. It's a Rage Across the Heavens Gift and it is rank 5. So if you see it, it's almost certain it is a gratuitous use since the werewolf could turn you into ash-tray contents without resorting to rage for extra actions anyways.

Spirit of the Fray. The Second most broken gift in the eyes of many(With Ocean's Peace taking first place to everyone aware of it.). Once you learn it, it's always on, and you always, always, always, always, always, get +10 to your initiative. Spend a gnosis point? Bam, +20 initiative. Spend 5 gnosis points? BAM +50 to initiative. This is -On Top- of Base Initiative(Dex+Wits) AND the dice roll.

Gnosis and rage -cannot- be spent in the same turn unless their are extenuating circumstances, Chaos Mechanics(Glasswalker gift) or it is specifically stated in a gift/fetish or they have powerful spirit friends 'loaning' them a particularly yummy charm(Spirit power) to use for a turn. So if Captain mack-Daddy Ahroun tells you he's spending 2 gnosis to boost his initiative by 20 and spending 4 or 5 rage for extra actions. Call him on his Shenanigans!

Speaking of Multiple actions...

Rage is -not- Celerity. Don't let a WtA player tell you otherwise. Wait...yanno what., I'll go into rage and gnosis in detail in the attachment to this reply, this one has extended long enough as is.

To be continued....

Actually what you posted is not quiet right

Quote:

Obfuscate is automatically pierced if the power used is equal or less than the rank of the Garou it is being tested against. Not usually a problem on digichats until you count what the rank 1 gift Heightened Senses can do to effectively 'bump' the level forcing even a Vanish from the Minds Eye Nosferatu vs. a Rank 1 Lupus Ragabash to need to make the resisted roll just like equal levels of auspex. Unfun if you are a vampire, but it's a better chance than hoping to god your presence works the way you want it to. Just hope the wolf is not in possession of Sense of the Prey, or you are one dice roll away from turning into one ashy vamp.

The Ravnos legendary power of Chimeristry. The art of Illusion. Well, your typical illusion crafting Ravnos illusions will be automatically detected unless the Ravnos user has access to Heightened Senses himself to craft his illusions to the point the sense stimulated by them can be fooled even with supernatural aide. Again, a variety of gifts penetrate illusions, and two can do so passively(as in not having to be routinely activated.). And again, it's better than using presence! Smoke'em if you got'em after all!

Vampire Storyteller Handbook (Revised Edition) has a whole section of nice crossover rules for all Game Systems (Werewolf, Hunter, Mage, Wraith, Changeling) and it has a nice table that compares Power Levels.

For Example a Rank 1's Human Ragabash's "Heightened Senses" Gift counts as a Rank 1 Power, and thus like Auspex 1 forces a Contested Roll vs. Vampires using Obfuscate 1 or Chimeristry 1, but will not help you in any way to see thru Obfuscate 2 or Chimeristry 2.

Lets say the Ragabash is Rank 2, and uses "Heightened Senses" Gift, now it counts as a Rank 2 Power and thus similar to Auspex 2, i.e. Automatically seeing thru Obfuscate 1 and forcing a contested roll againt the Level 2 power etc.

In turn the Werewolf gifts like "Scent of Running Water" or "Blur of the Milky Eye" are handled like Obfuscate powers at a rating equal to the Werewolf's Rank. i.e. A Werewolf of Rank 1, will have serious trouble masking his scent or "blurring" in front of a Vampire with Auspex 2, but on the other hand a Rank 5 Garou will have all his "stealth" Powers count as Level 5 when it comes to a confrontation with a Vampire.

Aside that...... Animalism 3 for example can if you get enough suxx, shut down a Garou pretty good.

Quote:

No Animalism power that specifically affects
only animals (e.g. Beckoning) will have any effect on a
shapeshifter, even one of Lupus breed. Garou do, however,
have Beasts (as expressed through their Rage Traits) and
these can be manipulated with the appropriate Animalism
powers. The sole exception is communication - a vampire
employing Feral Whispers, for example, could carry on a
conversation with a Lupine through the language of wolves.

that said...

Why can't we be Friends?

have a nice one...

Vampire and Werewolf both have crossover rules. In the Werewolf Storytellers Companion it say's otherwise. DL/Buy it and check it. Has a section with Werewolf crossed over with every other system from Demon, Hunter, Mage, Mummy, Wraith and Vampire. That is what was used as the basis. And there are few better pictures than the one in that section of the gangrel starting to come out of the ground and a crinos werewolf(assuming it's a Get.) With a Jarlhammer looking down at it emerging.

Hmmm what Page? I have been looking thou the whole Werewolf Storytellers Companion (WW 3802) and aside some flavor on the enemies of the Garou i could not find any rules on Crossover.

THX